Taking Over The Family Business

Family Business With Purdeep Sangha

Okay, hey, Tim. So we have a pretty interesting conversation that we're going to be talking about here today, about how to decide whether to work in the family business or not. And so first, I want to thank you for joining me here, because I appreciate you taking out the time and sharing your wisdom with myself and the audience here.
So for those, you and I have had some conversations about family business, we're also looking at a collaboration. But a lot of the people out there listening don't know anything about you, maybe you can just spend a couple of minutes just sharing your background and your expertise and where you came from.
For sure, for sure.
Well, first off, thanks for having me on. My name is Tim Young. I was born and raised here here in Vancouver, British Columbia. My family is originally from Hong Kong. My background is that I went to UBC for mechanical engineering. After I graduated UBC I worked in I started working at Peterson, which is my family business. I worked there for three years kind of like in a general business capacity.
I was doing like accounting, treasury stuff, a variety of different things. And then from there, I actually went and worked for one of Peterson's partners. I worked there for three years in real estate development just to kind of cut my teeth and wearing the ropes. And after three years there, I came back to Peterson to really kind of initiate Peterson's real estate development program.
Well, Peterson had, which is the family business again, had done a lot of real estate development. It had mostly done it with partners, primarily as a financial backer. This was the like my push was for Peterson to get into doing it for themselves when it made sense, and partnering with partners when it made sense.
And so I did eight years there with me culminating with, you know, jumping to the end of the story culminating and me deciding to pursue a new career in July of last year, which is to implement at other families and support them the way my family has been supported, to put in family governance structures to help families flourish. And so that's what I'm doing right now.
I'm working with a gentleman named David Bentall. He's been in the space for 20 years. And I'm working with David McCall Kieran, to help families to help them have more hope for their future to develop their next generation, and to figure out who they want to be.
Yeah, that's that's kind of it.
Yeah, that's cool. I know you simplified it. But it seems like there's, there's a lot in between. So I'm gonna be asking a lot of questions here.
So first of all, what made you switch?
So now you're working in this family business, can you can you talk about like how if you don't mind sharing, you know, how big was the family business or in terms of employees?
Was it kind of national?
Was it more geographically focused?
Yes, Peterson is I mean, I would say more national in scope in Canada. Peterson has had still has investments in the United States. But they're mostly through partners. In terms of, you know, the prop like it's in real estate.
So in terms of the properties and developments that it owns and manages, I would say that's primarily in Canada, largely focused in British Columbia, with a little bit in the prairies, and a few more significant projects in Toronto. So that's kind of its scope, I think, employees wise, it's I think upwards of 300 employees.
So yeah, fairly large organization. And for our audience, because we have people everywhere, mainly in the US and Canada. And if you're not familiar, yes, we are proudly Canadian. Vancouver is where Tim is from. And everybody talks about Vancouver's been it's a beautiful place in British Columbia. And you have if you haven't been there, you definitely have to go.
But with your family business, where do you fit in?
Like what generation did you fit in?
Yeah, so I'm technically, I'm generation three or in, you know, in family business parlance, we call it you know, g3. Because you have to say it so much. So g1 is my grandfather. So the family business is name is Peterson. It's because his name is Peter. And so he you know, Peter and sons of Peterson. People are always surprised we're not like a Swedish family. And they're like surprised that we're Chinese.
But that's where it comes from. So the way it actually works in our families that my uncle, which is my dad's older brother, he runs the Hong Kong side of Peterson. My dad kind of was it was vested in him to start and run and build the the Canada operation for Peterson. So we're still very close with the family in Hong Kong. But basically the two different organizations run autonomously.
So I'm I'm kind of g3. On this side of the fence, though, in terms of in Canada, I'm kind of like more like a g2. So that's that's kind of the answer.
Oh, that's kind of cool.
That's kind of interesting that does that add any additional nuances or I'm going to say layers when or do they operate completely as separate companies?
They operate really separately. But as a family, I would say we're still very close.
Oh, that's good. Okay. So you got into the family business business.
So first, how did you get into the family business?
Was it something that was just expected?
Well, not at all, actually.
So I mean, most Chinese families, it's very much expected. My family is very much you can go do what you want. And so it was kind of my choice to come into the family business. And really, my story actually actually kind of goes back to university. So in 2006, both my grandpas passed away in the same year. And I will meant it.
The fact that I really couldn't communicate with them because I couldn't speak Cantonese. And so that really drove my decision. And I used my my university co-op as an opportunity to go work in Hong Kong with the family business in Hong Kong. And it was kind of a crash course in Cantonese. So Cantonese is the primary language in Hong Kong. It is not the lingua franca for Chinese people.
Mandarin is Cantonese is as distinct from Mandarin as like English is from French. They share some similarities, but it's largely different. And so I learned Cantonese just, you know, trial by fire working with my co workers who basically couldn't speak English.
And the long kind of story as to why that brought me to Peterson was, you know, it was really eye opening for me to be in a foreign country where I couldn't speak the language where suddenly I was no longer the native speaker. I learned that when you were learning a language, it was incredibly humbling, humbling, because you know, if you're smart, you're not smart if you can't express yourself.
If you're funny, you're not funny if you don't have the timing and the words to put it together. And so what I realized is that, you know, when you're an immigrant, you're learning a language, you're sacrificing a lot, and you're almost giving up a part of yourself.
And so what I really appreciated was when I had that experience in Hong Kong, I realized what was given up in coming to Canada for me.
And so, you know, in university, I worked really hard, I did really well. And there was a desire to, you know, honor with gratitude, these opportunities that have been given. And so that's kind of part of the reason I decided to go back and work at the family business is because of wanting to honor and give back to this thing that is given so much to me.
And so that's actually why I started working in the family business coming out of university. That and I realized while I was an extremely good engineer in university, academically, I'm practically speaking a terrible engineer.
It's, it's, it's interesting that you admit that because I think most engineers wouldn't admit that. So you just kind of came out of school and then went straight to the family business.
Yeah, I worked there for three years. I did accounting work, I cut my teeth just doing, I would say very unstructured business things just to get my head around different things. It was actually quite formative.
I mean, the accounting was super helpful. And then three years in, I moved to a company on another local developer, and I worked there for three years. They only kind of focus on real estate development. And that's where I learned the whole kind of development game from acquisitions through to a little bit of sales, but development through to completion. Interesting.
And so how was your experience working in the family business?
You know, it doesn't, I always joke, you can always tell when someone answers their phone, whether it's their friend calling or their mom and dad, because there's like a different tone, right?
You know, if it's a friend calling you're like, Hey, I was going.
And if it's mom or dad, you're like, What do you want?
Already. And so all that to say is that we are different people around our families. And we're often kind of our least restrained selves around families. We're sometimes kind of at times like at our worst. And I would say that combined with then working in a family business, it's hard. It's difficult. And so I mean, that was my experience.
It's like, it's very difficult to work in a family business. And I was actually, I think naive to a lot of the pressures around it.
Because, you know, most people would say, Oh, you have so much pressure from your dad. That's kind of not my experience with my dad. He doesn't put a lot of pressure on me. It was actually in some cases more like the pressure I put on myself. But working in family business is hard because there's a lot of invisible forces there that you don't necessarily understand or realize.
You know, the biggest one being it's hard, harder. I would say it is significantly harder in a family business to get really constructive feedback from people.
Because, and this is because, you know, when someone gives feedback to the boss's son or the owner's son, or owner's daughter, it's, it's, it's hard, right?
You know, are they going to complain to the owner of this company about what I've said?
And so you just kind of get less, which means that it's like, if you were on a hockey team, and the coach gave advice to everyone but you. And so it means that development requires a lot more effort to build that effort on the family member.
And that's where a lot of really, I think, well, I think a really lot of thoughtful family businesses really structure who comes into the family business, and has structures that support family members in the business. Because of this.
And so who else in your family works in the family business?
No one. So right now, it's really just my dad, my aunt, and we have a non family CEO and president.
And so do you have any siblings?
I do. I have got a younger brother and I have a baby sister. Neither of them are in the business. Still in high school.
So yeah, yeah.
Do you think they have aspirations or any thoughts of joining the family business?
Um, I'm not sure about my brother like he might at some point. But he hasn't.
He's, he's, he's been in real estate a little bit now. And maybe in the future. But I think he's, he is kind of more of an entrepreneur by nature and, and likes to call his own shot. And so I think he naturally more gravitates towards wanting to do his own thing. Interesting.
And so for your family, obviously, the next natural question is, okay, what does the family succession look like?
What does that transition plan look like?
Has that been?
Yeah, I mean, I think that's where like my dad really wanted continuity, but he didn't require continuity to mean that the next CEO or leader of the company came from the family. And so like a lot of families make this transition. We're probably making it a generation earlier than a lot of companies do. But a lot of like G three and G four families, their family members are not the CEO president.
Sometimes they're the chairman. And that's because, you know, it's kind of like, what are the odds that LeBron James's son is going to be LeBron. And what are the chances that LeBron James's son's son going to be, you know, the same. And so it's the same thing kind of with family business, like, and that's where actually in our work with family businesses, there's this distinction between management and ownership.
Right, because you can like, have a very strong feeling towards the business, but still maybe not be the best suited to run the business.
But actually, what you can do is actually be a really good owner, which means you discharge your duties and give clear direction as an owner, which is primarily around how much risk the company should be taking, how much what the metrics of success for the business are, and how much what should be what the dividend dividend policy should be.
Should this be a business that's in harvest mode where you get 100% of free cash flow?
Or is this business in growth mode, where you are investing 100% of free cash flow into future growth, and that or anywhere in between, right. And there's a spectrum. And that's where like, you can be a good owner if you kind of discharge your duties in that way. And you mean a bad owner if you don't discharge your duties.
And so I think that's like, a helpful distinction for families because then it moves from you have to run the business, or there's no continuity, versus now you can say, Oh, you can run the business, or you can be a good owner. And that's another way of like, creating a legacy.
Yeah, I think you touched on so many good points here, because that distinction is so important. And I think for most family businesses, they are tied so tidy together being an owner and being the manager, or let's just say, leader of the organization, which is essentially calling the shots as to how the business is run on a day to day basis, that gets very foggy for a lot of individuals.
And there's almost like this right or entitlement to that. And here's my perspective.
And this is my personal perspective in the work that we do, especially with the next generations, we do a lot of training for for the next generations in terms of how to be the best CEO you can be or best executive is you may have the right to be an owner through blood through whatever it is, but that doesn't mean you have the right to lead the organization, because that requires a completely different skill set.
And we see this over and over again, where individuals who feel like they have the right to lead the organization and don't have the skills or the temperament, or whatever it may be, they kind of screw things up. And so that can become a challenge as well as it does put a lot of pressure on the individual taking over the organization.
And I think this is what I see more often, Tim, I'm not sure about you, but I see a lot of the next generation, yes, wanting to take things over. But once they get that pressure that it's all on them now, they start to freak out.
Because, you know, mom and dad or mom and dad have created this amazing company.
And now they're in charge of the risk, right?
They're in charge of making sure that things are working as planned. And if things go sideways, that could potentially if the if the owners, the original owners haven't divested or diversified their portfolio enough, that could make or break the company potentially mom and dad's retirement fund.
Yeah, for sure. So we see that quite often as well.
What what would you say to someone that is in that position of do I take over the company?
Do I not take over the company?
What are the some of the things that they should be thinking about?
I think like, um, a big thing is, is around, you know, what their purpose in life is, right?
Like what gets them out of bed in the morning?
I think, um, if this is in alignment with your passion and what you are excited about, then I think you should pursue it.
I mean, and just like you said, there's kind of a distinction between, you know, we have these this this concept, it's called the three circle model, and it's got three circles, family ownership and business. And the reason family business is so complex is because all of those interweb.
And the thing that we're pointing to is, how do you get into those three circles?
Well, in the family circle, you're born or adopted, right?
In the ownership circle, you're gifted or given shares or you buy shares. And then in the business circle, you get hired.
And so you get into the circles very differently, right?
And so it's similar to that, like when you go into that CEO position, your presence is a position, it's not given.
You should be promoted, right?
Which means you should be, you know, have the requisite skills and be capable. I think but I think the biggest thing is like, you have to want it like it has to be who you are.
I think the last thing you want to do is think that that is something you want to do because of status or prestige, and then land in it and be just wholly upset that you are in this position. And that's where I think like a big part of it is less about like, boom, like, like a drawn line, where it's like mom and dad are gone, and now you're the successor.
And if if there is a desire to be successor, it's actually more of like a spectrum, right?
Like, how do you design a process where you can step in, start doing certain things, start making certain decisions, and really make this a process where because you know, you're a family business, you've got a long term view.
How do you make this a process where mom and dad can start to seed decision making, but be by your side to help you fix mistakes, correct them or give you advice?
Like, how do you make this like a situation where the fact that they're still around can be this huge asset to your development, rather than this desire to be like, you know, cut and dry, like I'm making the decisions now.
And it's all going to be on me, right?
I think that helps. That's one thing we talked to families about the idea.
It's we call it succession, which is the same as the show, right?
But like, ideally, it's more about continuity.
Yep, yeah, really good point. And I completely agree with that in terms of the continuity and passion and your purpose, because those are so important. That's a lot of things that are two particular things that people don't really look at when they're in the family business.
It's it's really about okay, a lot of times it's financial, right?
They're the financial game. A lot of the times it's the status. It's the expectation. But I will also say that, like we predominantly work with a lot of men. And I would say 85% of our clientele are men, we work with a broader group of families as well. But most of the individuals who hire us are typically men. They're either the founding generation or their, you know, subsequent generations.
But one thing that we do find that is very consistent is stepping or living in someone else's shoes. And typically when you are a son or daughter taking over a business, and this is particularly, I think, for a lot of men, it's even more predominant than for women is they have to fill some big shoes. And a lot of times they can't separate their own identity from their parents identity.
And that becomes a bigger problem in life, right?
They might be crushing it in business.
But then they can't separate their identity on the personal side, right?
Because they're still, you know, the end, they go to their spouses and their spouses are like, Yeah, you know, your business is your business. That's completely separate. But in here, you know, you're my husband, or you're my, you're my dad, or whatever it is.
But it's almost like they become junior, right?
And it's good for a certain period of time. But one of the biggest problems that comes out at some point in time, which we always almost addressed with 90% of the guys that are in family businesses I take over is them creating their own identity. Because they don't feel like they've created their own themselves, like they've lived in someone else's shoes and expectations.
And all of a sudden, they're in their 40s 50s, sometimes even later saying, I'm not even my own man.
Like I'm, I'm just like my dad reinvented.
Yeah, yeah, no, I think.
So, you know, one thing that's in family business literature is this idea around the psychology of family enterprises. And one major issue is that usually an adult, like a guy, when they go to university, let's say, they get to move away, they get to kind of create their own identity, they get to become an adult, they go and do a job.
And now you know, they get to relate to their parents as adults, right?
So the difficulty with family businesses is usually you're really tied, right?
Even if you're in university, you might be getting some support from them, you might come back and work summer internships or whatever. And so you're tight. And so you never fully differentiate, you never become fully an adult outside of this circle. And so what happens is you, you come in, you're you're an adult now, like an quote unquote, adult, you're married, maybe you have a family, and you're working your family business.
But you still have a parent child relationship. And so you're still craving acknowledgement, because you don't have an adult to adult relationship with your parents.
And that is, I mean, the world doesn't have a lot of sympathy, right?
For people from family businesses that are doing well, you know, like they have the world's tiniest violin, right?
Like, it's not like people don't really care. But this is a hard part of it. And I think you've got the crux of it, which is, you know, figuring out your identity. I think a big part of it that I've learned through my career is that a big part of growing as a person is rather than trying to be someone else.
It's having the understanding of growing and learning from things, but really kind of filtering it through who you are, you know, like you might read a book and might have a phrase that they, you know, exhort you to use.
But a big part of it is like, well, what is this in my language?
Like, does it align with who I am?
And then that's where I think you actually grow is you create your own identity, because you trust that there are good things in you, that if you kind of filter it through that, it'll be more you and you will kind of like become your own person. But I think a lot of people like struggle with that. They're still trying to be their dad. Yeah.
And if we take the even the family business part of the interesting thing is this happens regardless of whether you're in a family business or not, it's just magnified.
When you're in a family business, because now your career is tied, right?
But we, we, we outside of family business, we see this a lot where, you know, the parent child relationship just continues to cause problems. And unfortunately, it's just part of being a human being, it's part of the family dynamics, you can say.
So when it when it comes to the clients that you work with now in particular, I'm assuming because you worked in family business, and you've experienced some of this stuff, you have a different take. And when you're, how do you address some of these challenges with individuals that you know, maybe facing some challenges down the road, they might be hard headed or stubborn or whatever it is.
But it's not like you can say, Hey, yeah, no, you need to do this. Or sometimes some people do. But how do you have those conversations where you know, people are just headed down the wrong direction, and they may be stubborn, they may not be listening.
Are you very direct with them?
Or do you kind of take a more, you can say coaching style of approach with some of the individuals?
I would say like, I'm not I'm not a superb one, get in your face kind of guy. I have done that before. I would say, I generally feel like it's more durable when it's a coaching approach. Because you can lead a horse to water, you can't make a drink. And I think it's the same thing with people is like, part of it is you may have the best idea for them.
But if they don't want it, it kind of doesn't matter.
And so I think like, my general approach would be trying to figure out what is the problem under the problem?
What is the thing that is getting stepped on?
What is the value in their life that's getting stepped on that's bothering them so much?
Or, you know, what is their part in this problem?
You know, I heard this on a podcast once, which was um, it was in the context of relationship, but it was like, the guy is complaining about his spouse. Like she's always undermining me, she doesn't respect me.
And one of the exercises they get this guy to do then is if if you were to just put someone into your relationship, like just replace yourself, what would the operating manual be for you for that person to get to the exact same relationship spot you are right now. And then that's when you get to realize, oh, they're doing something that's not right.
And then you get to realize, well, you know, my spouse might be doing something. There's a laundry list of me doing things that are creating this, right. And I think it's the same thing of family business.
Like, it's so common, I think, that there's a laundry list of things that the person is doing, that it's creating part of a situation, and they can change that and they can work on that. But it takes there's a step in beginning to one own it, and even realize that that exists, because I think that's what's going on.
And then there's a real, I think, like dopamine hit with the self pity party, which is what was me like, everything else is being done to me.
Yeah, that's very interesting. Because we do tend to point the fingers at other people, in general, and then we point the fingers, let's just say, at our parents, and say, you know, it's because of them, but self reflection is so important.
I can, I think that's a great point in terms of anybody who's been in a family business or a family business or not, have you come across situations where you have multiple siblings that are, you know, fighting for the leadership position?
And how do you direct them?
Or what would be your advice to them?
Well, I think that's where so, you know, I think it was Ray D'Aleo that said this, you want this is in not in a family business, you want people with shared values and complementary mental part of like a family is that like there's a new generation every time, right?
And the big thing is that it's actually way easier for the new generation to be like, sell the assets, put it into four, give it to the four siblings. It's that is the easier path. The harder path is to stay together.
So then it's like, well, why stay together?
A big part is like you have shared values. Like this thing matters to all of us. So that's the big part is like, if there's like, let's say, siblings fighting for that role, if they don't have shared values, then they probably shouldn't stay together. Or some people shouldn't stick together.
If they do have shared values, then it becomes okay, like, what is our vision?
And if the vision is for this company to flourish, then they should be willing to submit themselves to some form of like impartial or third party review of their performance. And that's where actually like we really recommend for families to get an independent board of directors.
And one huge asset, if you have, let's say, three independent directors in your business, you can you know, they're capable, technically strong mentors, then you can actually hive them off and say a part of your duty, and this is all paid for, but part of your duties is mentorship and evaluation of future CEO candidates.
And so now you have effectively made this super icky thing that the family doesn't want to deal with. And you've given it to some third parties who can then give feedback, evaluate these people over a long time frame, and eventually might have to choose one person over the other. But at least it's been clear, and it's been removed from the family confines. And you've given it some impartiality.
And I think that's where, you know, if those people, those siblings have a shared view of the future, I think they can accept the result, even if they're not necessarily happy about it, as opposed to like, dad, picking one son over the other or one daughter over the other. And then suddenly, it's this kind of like, stain or taint that just never goes away.
Right?
So those would be my high level thoughts.
Yeah, I think that's very well said, because there's it's not only pressure on the siblings, for example, it's pressure on the parents. So or whoever, you know, the generation who's in charge right now, because who wants to be a parent that says, Hey, look, you get the position and you don't, like that, that doesn't go well for anybody.
But having an impartial person be able to weigh in at least maybe not make the final decision or the whole decision, but weigh in on the process does completely change the picture, people might not accept it, some people won't. But I think the dynamics do change significantly. So a great suggestion there. And it just reminds me of this.
It's not a quote, but it's kind of like this concept where people say, you know what, I didn't know how crazy my family was until I actually stepped out of it.
And some people, you know, that's why it's, you know, you're saying an independent board member or advisory board member who are that that's the whole purpose, right?
So they're able to step out of the family dynamics and see the challenges that you may not be able to see. And there's a lot of value to that, definitely a lot of value to that.
So, so Tim, just in terms of, for you, your personal journey, what was that moment for you where you decided to say, I'm going to move on and do something different?
And what made you make that decision?
Or what, what were the factors involved in your decision?
Sure.
So, um, it really actually was with the help of one of my managers at the time, who kind of challenged me. He was like, you know, you're capable of doing this. And if you want to, you know, take my job, like, you know, I'll train you.
But you got to, what is your passion in this real estate development industry?
Because he was like, honestly, this is this industry is a grind. So you got to love part of it. And the more I kind of really wrestled with that, the more I thought about it, the more I realized the thing that I was most proud of wasn't getting a deal done, wasn't getting development done or picking a good partner to work with.
The thing I really was most proud of and liked the most was the mentoring, training, educating of my direct reports, like building up and developing people. That was the thing when I looked at was both the thing I enjoyed the most. And I think the one thing that I'm like, uniquely good at.
And so when I really thought about it, you know, that is a part of real estate development is building up a team and building up people. But it's really like a secondary or tertiary part of the job. The primary part of the job is making good decisions and project management. And I don't really like I don't like the project management side of things.
And so as I thought about a next step, I was really thinking about what is an area I could go into that really leaned into this people development side, this side that, you know, needs to engage in difficult decisions or difficult conversations, and needs to bring people together and help them grow.
And that's when one of our family kind of friends, family advisors suggested to me, maybe you should consider this family advisor space. David bento works with my family. And so that's when I started to just think about it. And it took maybe six to eight months of time just thinking about it, because it was not something I wanted to come to lightly.
But the more I thought about it, the more and it is big. It was a huge change for me. Real estate development was great solid career and there was a future trajectory going out and it was going to be pretty stable. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that that wasn't something that I was going to be really happy doing over the long term.
And the more I thought about this, the more I realized this was probably going to be something I enjoyed doing, not that I knew it at the time. And now that I've stepped into it, I've been working with David since July and it's been exactly what I could have hoped for.
Working with families, helping them chart that journey into a brighter future for themselves, getting to know people, being invited into hear their story. I really do feel it's a privilege and it's felt really meaningful and I've been really enjoying and really finding the work so satisfying.
Do you think you'll ever go back to the family business at all?
I mean, you never close that door. I still have so much affection for the people there and the business and that's not going to end. But at the same time, I think, you know, it's interesting. I thought that for the longest time, my trajectory at Peterson was kind of stunted. Like I couldn't figure things out. Like it just wasn't going the way I wanted.
And now I realized why I thought I was kind of wanting to lead that company into the future. What I realized that my time at Peterson was actually really about preparing me to do this work because I actually couldn't have done this work but for having that experience.
I can't speak about financial statements or deal structures or like different types of investment in a cogent way but for having that experience at Peterson.
So really, I thought it was, you know, this but now I realized that I was really getting prepared and set up to do that, which is, you know, this family enterprise work.
So, yeah, maybe in the future but not in the near term. That's really interesting. So all paths kind of led to here. I think so.
Well, you know, honestly, this is like really deeply interpersonal work that I'm doing and not a common thing for, I think, a mechanical engineer to be leaning into. And I think that's where you kind of, you know, sometimes life is stranger than fiction. I don't think I would have written this for myself. Hmm. Interesting. Yeah. And I think that's a beauty and you just shared that. That's the beauty of life.
And people in general, when it comes to their business, always, although they're entrepreneurs in general, let's just start with that. It's very unpredictable. They never know where they're going to be at the end of the day but they have a long-term vision to be able to have some kind of a business that actually is super successful that gives them the wealth and that gives them the feeling that they've actually done something.
Now, in family business, it's really interesting because some people come in and that's all they've wanted, right?
Was to take over the company since they were kids.
And I can feel for some of those individuals because that's been their biggest goal, right?
In their entire lives. And then there's individuals that don't even want to step into the family business. And then there's kind of, you know, kind of like you in between where you kind of bounce back and in and now you found your journey, you may potentially go back. And I think that is very healthy because it allows you to deal with the unknown. And that is one of the beauties of life.
And I was just sharing this with one of the groups that I was coaching.
And I said, how awesome would life be if you knew exactly what was going to happen every single day for the next year?
Like once you get bored, at first, most people are like, yeah, no, I want to know everything that's and then after that, like, yeah, you know, it wouldn't be that fun. Yeah. Like it just becomes monotonous. And so I think the unknown is so important because there's probably there's people out there guaranteed that are listening to this saying, I know my path.
And if my path doesn't go this way, I'm going to be ruined. My life's going to be over. I don't think that's necessarily the case. And you've proved that because you've done different things.
I think the more healthier approach is say, okay, let's take a day by day, have a goal, have a vision, but be able to come with whatever is going to happen at that particular time, because who knows, there may be a day that you make a decision to say, I want to do something different. And this happens a lot.
And Tim, I'm sure you've seen this too, where some people, it's a passion to run the family business. And all of a sudden, it's time for them to leave even founding generations. Right. And I remember my dad, for example, saying, you know what, many times he said, I'm kind of tired of this.
Like, you know what, you know, maybe we should just sell everything. And so it happened. So I think just being prepared for the unknown is just a healthy way of living.
Well, can I share a story with you?
So I was, I had to moderate a panel and I'd never moderated a panel before. I've been on panels before, and I think that's not as bad. You just get to talk about your experience, not dissimilar to this podcast, but monitoring in a panel was kind of a different step for me because it meant that I was almost responsible for the stories of four other people.
And it felt like really heavy and I wasn't sure how to approach it. I was so nervous about it. And what I realized was, you know, you don't get to choose how things go, but you do get to choose how you want to be.
And so as I was driving to the event, it just kind of hit me that, you know, who am I at my best?
I am at my best when I'm on vacation and with my wife and we get to explore places. I'm on an adventure. When I go to Shibuya in Tokyo for the first time, I don't really have a plan, but it's going to be fun. I'm not going to have the best restaurants scoped out because I haven't been there before, but part of it is not knowing what's going to happen.
Part of it is being in the moment.
And I actually got to decide for myself of going into this moderating panel that I wanted to treat it like an adventure because, you know, Indiana Jones isn't a very compelling movie if he's super efficient and just gets, you know, the Holy Grail at the beginning of the first scene and the movie's over, right?
Like you got from A to B, but that's not on what an adventure is. An adventure is that you get to enjoy, lean into and experience and be present for all the twists and turns. And that's where I think like I've been really leaning into this idea of adventure.
And so for the moderating panel, I was thinking, you know, this is the first time that I and the last time that I will get to moderated panel for the first time. And so I get to lean into that. I get to lean into this experience and I get to enjoy where this goes, even though I don't know where it's going to go. And it went great.
But I think part of it was because I chose to be in the moment instead of choosing to live in the anxiety of just hoping it goes well and showing up as like, you know, 70% of myself.
Yeah, such a such a such a great story or analogy because the Indiana Jones, I think that's that just says it all because that's what sometimes being a family business is like, is kind of an adventure. And sometimes it goes your way. And sometimes it doesn't. So thank you for sharing that.
So Tim, where can people get ahold you?
Where can people connect with you if they're interested in knowing more about what you do?
Yeah, my bio everything is on next step advisors dot ca. My emails on there as well. So if you want to contact me, that's probably the best place. Awesome. So there you go. Contact him. Because the family business space family enterprise space. My my I always say this to individuals is get help.
Seek out mentorship sick out advice because you can save so much time, energy, money help you grow your business, but more importantly, help you have a healthy family.
Yeah, because yeah, that's it's just, there's too much at stake to not actually make better decision. I'm not going to say perfect decisions because that never happens in family business or just in life in general, but just making better decisions and having someone by your side to help you do that absolutely increases your chance of making better decisions.
So Tim, I want to thank you. And for those you tuning in, stay tuned to another episode.