Why we need Ladybird (Interview)

The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source

Andreas Kling and Chris Wanstrath have joined forces to form a non-profit called Ladybird Browser Initiative to manage the newly forked Ladybird browser. We discuss what it’s going to take to get to alpha, the why behind Ladybird, avoiding incentives other than those of the users, their plans for incremental adoption of Swift as the successor language over C++, and of course what they hope Ladybird can achieve as a truly independent open source browser that’s for the people.

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Sponsors:

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Featuring:

• Andreas Kling – Twitter, GitHub, Website
• Chris Wanstrath – Twitter, GitHub, Website
• Adam Stacoviak – Mastodon, Twitter, GitHub, LinkedIn, Website
• Jerod Santo – Mastodon, Twitter, GitHub, LinkedIn

Show Notes:

• Ladybird announcement (from Chris Wanstrath)
• Ladybird.org
• Ladybird Browser (on GitHub)
• The Changelog #10: All things GitHub with Chris Wanstrath
• Changelog Interviews #554: The serenity of building your own OS with Andreas Kling
• Swift.org
• Crafting Interpreters by Robert Nystrom (book)
• Click (2006) Official Trailer (from Adam Sandler)
• Plug: Void.dev
• Plug: Andreas Kling on YouTube
• Plug: Cozy lofi from Katalin Kult (ghost whiskers)

Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

章

1. Welcome to The Changelog (00:00:00)

2. Sponsor: Sentry (00:01:26)

https://sentry.io/

3. Starting with OG shirt nostalgia (00:04:51)

4. Back to talk about Ladybird (00:05:57)

5. How Andreas and Chris met (00:09:04)

6. The summer of 2026 (00:14:18)

7. Will the web change? (00:16:13)

8. Why climb the mountain? (00:17:14)

9. Two years is not a long time (00:19:03)

10. What about mobile? (00:22:20)

11. Where can the roadmap go? (00:24:20)

12. From SerenityOS to Linux and Mac (00:26:04)

13. Sponsor: Paragon (00:29:14)

https://www.useparagon.com/changelog

14. Making use of 3rd party libraries (00:32:53)

15. Language evaluation (Swift) (00:36:23)

16. The right lang for the job (00:40:09)

17. How Apple tethered is Swift? (00:41:15)

18. Making the right lang choice (00:44:51)

19. Are you treading water? (00:48:18)

20. Supporting Ladybird (00:49:57)

21. Who can use it today? (00:51:53)

22. Build instructions (00:53:15)

23. Ladybird is meaningful to Chris (00:55:08)

24. GitHub PTSD (00:56:17)

25. Write code and make video games (01:01:17)

26. Chris' anonymous GitHub profile (01:02:44)

27. Chris on coding for Ladybird (01:03:52)

28. Making a serious browser (01:04:47)

29. What is your Alpha? (01:06:17)

30. Sponsor: 1Password (01:11:06)

https://1password.com/changelogpod

31. Click! Ladybird in the future. (01:14:12)

32. Room for privacy features (01:19:31)

33. "Help us build Ladybird" (01:27:24)

34. GitHub x Braintree (01:29:07)

35. Donate and sponsor (01:31:15)

36. Plug: void.dev (01:32:02)

37. Plug: Cozy lofi from Katalin Kult (01:32:29)

38. Andreas Kling on YouTube (01:33:20)

39. Wrapping up (01:34:30)

40. Closing thoughts and stuff (01:34:57)

41. ++ Teaser (01:37:01)

42. Cozy lofi from Katalin Kult (01:38:45)