KOL364 | Soho Forum Debate vs. Richard Epstein: Patent and Copyright Law Should Be Abolished

Kinsella On Liberty

Kinsella on Liberty Podcast, Episode 364. This is my Soho Forum debate held Nov. 15, 2021, in Manhattan, against professor Richard Epstein, moderated by Gene Epstein. I defended the resolution "all patent and copyright law should be abolished" and Professor Epstein opposed it. Oxford debate rules applied which meant that whoever changed the most minds won. My side went from about 20 to 29 percentage points, gaining about 9; Richard went from about 44 to 55%, gaining about 11, so he won by 1.7 percentage points. My notes, and a Transcript, are below. Postmortem episode to follow. Update: See KOL369 | Soho Forum IP Debate Post-Mortem with Greg Morin. Note: Reddit forums discussing the debate. Youtube: https://youtu.be/Ep2-ohgFOys See Gene Epstein's note about Oxford debate rules at Soho Forum and the margin of error: From Reason: Abolish Intellectual Property Rights? Patent lawyer Stephan Kinsella debates Law Professor Richard Epstein GENE EPSTEIN | 11.24.2021 1:00 PM Abolish Intellectual Property Rights? The United States Constitution explicitly calls for copyright and patent laws to "promote the progress of science and useful arts" by "authors and inventors." But would getting rid of all intellectual property laws actually encourage more creativity and innovation by inventors, writers, and artists? That was the topic of a November 15 Soho Forum debate held in New York City. Stephan Kinsella, who's spent 28 years as a practicing patent law attorney, argued in favor of the proposition that "all patent and copyright law should be abolished." He believes that government-created intellectual property laws empower patent and copyright trolls and powerful corporate interests while limiting the free flow of information, thus reducing the rate of innovation and creativity. Richard Epstein, the Laurence A. Tisch Professor of Law at NYU School of Law, says that our current system isn't perfect but sees copyright and patents as a natural extension of private property rights and believes that it should be defended by libertarians accordingly. The debate took place in New York City in front of a live audience and was moderated by Soho Forum Director Gene Epstein. Narrated by Nick Gillespie. Edited by John Osterhoudt. Production by Caveat. Photos by Brett Raney. In 2018, Gene Epstein retired from a 26-year stint as Economics and Books Editor at Barron's, where he wrote the weekly column, "Economic Beat." He's director of the Soho Forum, which he co-founded in 2016, a monthly debate series that receives fiscal sponsorship from the Reason Foundation. ❧ —✦— Kinsella Notes —✦— Resolved: All patent and copyright law should be abolished. A Soho Forum Debate Stephan Kinsella vs. Richard Epstein Nov. 15, 2021 Caveat, 21 A Clinton St. New York, NY 10002 MAIN PRESENTATION – NOTES Resolution: All patent and copyright law should be abolished Why? because these laws violate property rights, they violate freedom of speech and the press, they distort culture, they impede innovation, they literally kill people, and they impoverish the human race. There is nothing good about patent and copyright law. They are total abominations and harm humanity. They are a mistake. [No, you don’t have to be an anarchist, anti-legislation, a Rothbardian, Austrian, or even a libertarian to oppose IP law] (By the way I’ve been practicing patent and IP law for 28 years, representing clients such as Intel, General Electric, and so on. So I have some rough idea of how the actual system works.) What are the laws in question? Copyright protects the right to copy of make “derivative works” of “original works of authorship” for the life of the author plus 70 years = 120–150 years. This is enforced by injunctions and legal protections, such as statutory damages of $150k per act of infringement