Ethics is Your Business.

Tough Things First

Did you know stealing a pen from your employer is embezzlement? It might not seem like a big deal, but what it says about you IS a big deal. In this Tough Things First podcast, Ray Zinn discusses ethics and how little things become big things that create a negative workplace culture.

---

Rob Artigo: Ray, interpersonal communications, which obviously we’re doing here, expense reports, travel expenses, these are things most business people deal with, so let’s talk about handling ethical decisions at the ground level, in other words, where we’re penciling in mileage and things like that. I mean, when we’re making decisions at the ground level where we’re displaying ethics and where those ethics may come from in the course of your life and business life. I found this definition on the Santa Clara University Website on ethics. It says, “Ethics refers to well-founded standards of right and wrong that prescribe what humans ought to do, usually in terms of rights, obligations, benefits to society, fairness or specific virtues.” Do you agree with that particular definition?

Ray Zinn: Absolutely. I mean, I define ethics as doing what’s right when no one’s watching.

Ray Zinn Cont:I call it the paperclip syndrome. In other words, if you start stealing paperclips at work it’ll go on from there. Then it’s pencils, and then it goes on to thumb drives, and maybe other office equipment. And then, cheating at that root level, that it grows into something big. Everything starts small and then grows bigger, and so what you want to do is not even, as I call it the paperclip syndrome, don’t even consider even taking paperclips at work. As I said, it starts small.

Rob Artigo: Yeah, I’ve seen in job interviews where one of the questions is usually asked is have you stolen from any previous employer? And sometimes people will say, “Well, maybe I’ve taken a pen home.” Or they’ll suggest, “Haven’t you even just taken a pen home?” And they get down to just that kind of thing because I suppose they’re looking to see if you have a tendency to abscond with even the smallest items because that’s blow back on the bottom line.

Ray Zinn: Yeah. As I’ve called it, the paperclip syndrome, where if you just say, “Well, it’s just a paperclip, it’s only worth a couple pennies,” then it goes from there. We want to avoid even the appearance of dishonesty and, as I said, honesty or integrity and ethics is doing what’s right when no one’s watching. If people are watching, that’s one thing, that’s why we have cameras around and other surveillance devices to let people know, “Hey, we’re watching you,” but you should do what’s right when no one’s watching.

Rob Artigo: Right. And if we can do this by our own upbringing, what we’re used to and what we believe our real human standards are or we can rely on those forces in our workplace, for example, that set the tone. Is there a combination of those things that we should think about the most? Is it more going to be something that’s built in us or is it something that the company can do to obligate the employees to pay attention to ethics?

Ray Zinn: Let’s talk about that because, at the company level, if the employees feel the company is dishonest then they don’t have a problem taking and doing dishonest things at the company, and so it stems from the top. In other words, if the CEO or the president or managers and so forth, if they’re being dishonest their employees will end up being dishonest because monkey see, monkey do, as they say. The ethics of a company really start at the top and if you’re ethical, then as a leader, then it’s more likely your employees will be ethical. I like this TV program called American Greed and I see all kinds of things that take place that I was astounded with.

Just taking the Boeing 737 Max, and this issue about Boeing trying to save money and minimizing safety of the equipment and the product that they’re making, and that was on American Greed. Of course, some people lost their jobs over that but greed can even be at the highest level. Boeing is a huge company, and when you get your toe hold and trying to do some dishonest things then big things happen, people lose their lives and people lose fortunes. I’m not here promoting American Greed, I’m just saying is I see a lot of that dishonesty and unethical standards when I watch that program and see what these people are willing to do.

Rob Artigo: But if you use programs like that and just the stories in general about ethical lapses, if you will, then you’re going to learn something from that, and you can walk away from that with something in your toolbox to handle it.

Ray Zinn: Yep. Yeah, I mean, well, it’s just interesting. I guess I must have lived a very sheltered life because it’s always been … I’m the oldest of 11 children and it’s always been taught to us as children growing up how important honesty and integrity is. That’s something that I’ve had to deal with since I’ve been a child, being the oldest of 11, and setting the example for the rest of my siblings, so it is a concern in this country. After I said, watching this program called American Greed, I didn’t realize how prevalent it was but it’s incredible what people will do for money or for fame or fortune or whatever. It starts with little things. Just the smallest little dishonest task then leads to the next one and next one and so forth.

It’s kind of like pornography, it takes root, and it takes hold, and then pretty soon you’re stuck, then it goes on from there. Or drugs, same thing with drugs. Start off with a small drug and then pretty soon you just need more and more and more to satisfy your habit, and same thing with ethics. One little, small unethical action leads to more, and more, and more, and more until you find yourself in prison.

Rob Artigo: It’s interesting, I just watched an episode of Colombo, and I used to watch that show all the time, I probably watched that whole series a couple of times. But Colombo, of course, is a LA police detective who gets involved in these really intricate investigations, always involving a murder that takes place at the start of the show. And then, if you watch the show carefully, you look at usually that the motive at least begins with some aspect of ethical lapses on the part of the murderer, that they started with certain things that they were doing behind the scenes and they were going to get caught, and so they had to do some other action to cover up those ethical lapses. It’s just an example of how things can, even in fiction, they can snowball on you really fast and take one small ethical lapse and turn it into something that can ruin your life.

Ray Zinn: Well, honesty breeds honesty and dishonesty breeds dishonesty so that’s just the bottom line. Good brings on good and bad brings on bad. We can just leave it there.

Rob Artigo: Well, Ray, as always, the folks listening to us right now can reach out to you with their questions at toughthingsfirst.com. They can continue their education and, of course, the conversation with all the podcasts, blogs, and links to information about blogs, links to information about Ray’s books, Tough Things First, and The Zen of Zen Series, One, Two, and Three. Thanks, Ray.

Ray Zinn: Thanks, Rob.