15 | Be Kind To Your Artist with Uma Dobia

Through The Creative Door

Join Alexis as she sits down with the incredibly talented singer and creative Uma in this inspiring episode of Through the Creative Door. Uma shares her journey as a musician and performer, from her opera training to her cabaret performances. She opens up about the challenges she's faced, including navigating lifelong food allergies and a recent Crohn's disease diagnosis, and how these experiences have influenced her creative process. Uma also talks about her proudest projects, including her cabaret show “Intolerant” and her powerful songs “Houses On Fire” and “I Will Stand.” Tune in for an honest and heartfelt conversation about creativity, resilience, and the importance of self-compassion in the artistic journey

If you’d like to see more of, you can follow Uma on instagram; @umamusicoffical

This episode was recorded on 24 January 2024 on the lands of the Woiworung Peoples. We hope that this episode inspires you as a creative person and as a human being.

Thanks for listening, catch you on the next episode.

Psst! We are always on the lookout for creative people to share their story and inspire others. Have you got someone in mind who would love to have a chat? Get in contact with us via Instagram @throughthecreativedoor

Creative references from Uma:

House On Fire - Uma Dobia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_KqCHMnqwk

Haus Of Shmizzay - https://www.instagram.com/hausofshmizzay/?hl=en

Soula Parassidis - https://www.instagram.com/soula_parassidis/?hl=en

Let’s get social:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/throughthecreativedoor/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ttcdpodcast

CREDITS

Created and Hosted by Alexis Naylor

Music by Alexis Naylor & Ruby Miguel

Edited and Produced by Ruby Miguel

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00:08 - Alexis (Host)

Hi, my name is Alexis Naylor and I am your host here at Through the Creative Door. On behalf of myself and my guests, I would like to acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians on which this podcast is recorded and produced. We pay our respects to all First Nations people and acknowledge Elders, past and present. On this podcast, I will be chatting to an array of creative guests, getting a glimpse into their worlds and having some honest and inspiring conversations along the way. Welcome to Through the Creative Door.

Hello Uma, how are you?

00:48 - Uma (Guest)

I'm good. How are you?

00:52 - Alexis (Host)

Good. I am so chuffed to be chatting with you. You are such a talented bear and I met you through, actually, my manager at the time and her brother, who's a wonderful audio engineer and musician himself. But yes, I think you're just a vibe. You're such a vibe and it's so exciting to see on the outside, looking in, your journey's been changing quite a lot as a creative. You're doing so many amazing things. You are doing lots of opera stuff, which is amazing, and I might have done a little stalky stalk on um YouTube. Oh, so stunning. Oh, my goodness, so jealous. I did do a stint of opera, learning opera when I was in high school, just as a like a dipping your toe in and I'll tell you, there's so much respect there that is hard yakka, hard yakka.

01:43 - Uma (Guest)

It's not easy it's true, it's true, it's never too late.

01:47 - Alexis (Host)

I'm not sure that's my calling I think it's yours and I'm happy for you to talk about that. But um, I'm also super chuffed for you that you have written this phenomenal show Intolerant? Which I'll let you talk to everyone about it. But, um, yeah, just what's a bit about you, and I'm just, yeah, just even chuffed that you're here. Oh, I'm through the creative door, with you.

02:16 - Uma (Guest)

I'm really excited to to be sharing this space with you too. I adore you and I admire you so much as an artist. You've done such gorgeous things

02:20 - Alexis (Host)

Aw thanks my love.

02:22 - Uma (Guest)

Very excited to be here, yay.

02:27 - Alexis (Host)

Well, I feel very chuffed that we are outside, very surprising that Melbourne's actually got sorry, that's really mean of me to say, but for those who know, Melbourne is usually four seasons in one day. That's right, it very much is. And we are sitting outside on your beautiful deck, your beautiful back garden, with the sun shining down on us, the birds chirping. It's just delightful, it's pretty nice.

02:53 - Uma (Guest)

This is summer. This is our one day of summer that we get.

02:56 - Alexis (Host)

Just one. That's one. I timed it very well, you did. I'm curious. You have been on this journey as a creative, as a musician, a singer, for a long time, but I wonder what for you, is a creative space. Like, what does it mean to you and why do you think that is?

03:16 - Uma (Guest)

I think for me, the creative space has been in my head and at the piano a lot of the time. Not all the time. Sometimes it's at a cafe,

03:25 - Alexis (Host)

Oh I love this yeah, do you have a particular cafe?

03:30 - Uma (Guest)

Well, because I've just moved up here to the beautiful Dandenongs and there is one not far down the road that I like to go and set myself up at. But I used to have, you know, my different places that I will go, depending on where I was living you know I lived in closer to the city of Melbourne for six years or so and I had a couple that I would frequent often to do some writing.

03:50 - Alexis (Host)

Love this, first name basis. What’s your coffee order?=

03:57 - Uma (Guest)

It's a bit wanky. It's a large, weak soy latte, because I discovered that I liked the less strong flavour but I didn't want a small one, yeah okay, you know so, and that way if I'm really desperate I can have two, but if I've had a double shot, kind of two, I'll be up all night, yeah, anyway, anyway, that's too much information for anyone, but I think, like for me, I remember when I first started writing, writing my own music, which I had done, you know, bits and pieces of as a kid I dipped in and out of all sorts of different creative things, because that's what I love to do but, when I I had one song in particular come to me in a flash of inspiration literally after being on the train, and it came through my head on the train on the way to uni and I was like what am I gonna do? How do I get this out? So I was singing to myself as I was walking from the train to uni and trying to get it in a voice message to myself.

04:50 - Alexis (Host)

How good are voice messages!

04:55 - Uma (Guest)

So good, so good. But I suppose that's the thing is that usually, you know, my creative space is in my head. It's from a flash of inspiration, from a flash of a moment, and usually, very inconveniently, it's when I'm doing something else, when I'm at work, when I'm supposed to be doing other things, and I have to like quickly write something down.

05:09 - Alexis (Host)

I can empathize with that. Mine seem to always come when I'm driving, when I do long stint drives, which is why everyone wonders why I like driving so much. I think they think I'm a bit nuts, but it's because it's like the time

05:21 - Uma (Guest)

Yeah, that's right. Yeah that's right. It's when your mind is focused on something. Yeah, yeah, exactly and you just allow the inspiration to come instead of trying to make it happen, although everything sounds like that too.

05:29

Yeah, you're like I have to finish this, yeah, but, um, but I guess it's so, I mean, ultimately the creative space becomes then taking the idea away and sitting down, you know, maybe sitting down at the piano, um, you know, spending some time working through different ideas. I'm trying more and more these days because I found it really works for me to just move with an idea, like it's the actual act of if I'm feeling inspired to dance or just to walk, you know, really helps me not get stuck in panic of, oh, this idea is crap or you know all that kind of stuff that comes up a lot yeah, so yes, cafes, my own head when you're doing something else and then at the piano when I get like I don't play.

06:15

You know, you have such gorgeous you know gorgeous tradition of being able to play for yourself and do all that kind of amazing stuff. I never cultivated that. That was the one thing I was like. I don't want to practice, I just want to be good, so of course that's right and that never happened, but I play enough to write chords.

06:37

You know around my songs and stuff like that. So when I get in that zone I can be there for hours because I love it. Um, and then that builds upon the other ideas that have already formed. But there isn't one set way I've found for me. There was one song, one of my favourite songs that I wrote way back in the day, came to me. I like woke up with it in my head, and that was another one where I was like where is the voice message? But yeah, it's a little bit random,

07:09 - Alexis (Host)

Or what do they say? You should always put like a pad and paper next to your bed.

07:11 - Uma (Guest)

Oh yeah, I've done that too. Yeah, yeah, I did that with my show. I did it before then, but I did it with my show. In the middle of the night I would wake up and like where's the script? Yes. Then in the morning you're like what the what does that say?

07:21 - Alexis (Host)

Wait. I really need some time to decipher what it was I was thinking at 2am.

07:24 - Uma (Guest)

That's right, and why is it on an angle and why is this letter really big and this letter really? Anyway, very funny, because I don't turn the light on, I just do it in the dark. I don't want to wake myself up. Yeah, true, I want to be able to go back to sleep.

07:46 - Alexis (Host)

True, true. You have done so many things, so I think this is going to be maybe a hard thing to ask, but then maybe it won't be. What are you the most proud of creating, whether it be on your own or collaborating with others? Um, and if so, if there is one or a few things how did it come about?

08:00 - Uma (Guest)

Yeah, I thought about this one a little bit. I there are. There are three things I'm most proud of, and the first is my show which is Intolerant, which I debuted at Melbourne Fringe Festival last year in October and it's coming very excited, taking it to Adelaide Fringe Festival from the 2nd to the 10th of March and then Melbourne Comedy Festival from the 27th of March to the 2nd of April. I've got to get that right.

08:27 - Uma (Guest)

And then really excited to start taking it overseas this year as well. We're planning San Diego, maybe San Francisco trying to work that out and hopefully London as well later in the year which is really exciting, but this is the piece that I'm most proud of, for a few reasons.

08:45

First of all, it allows me to do all the things that I've done, so like the writing and um, which is songwriting, but also some theatre writing. I have done some of that stuff before and I really enjoy it. It allows me to do the kind of performing that I like, which is I've discovered, you know, really being able to have moments with the audience where it's not just you're the audience and I'm the performer, and that's what you know. My journey has been a little bit all over the place, but that's what I came to discover I didn't like about a lot of the very traditional ways of performing, particularly in the opera world, which is kind of where my career has kind of gone more.

09:19 - Alexis (Host)

Was that the thing that you liked about sitting more in the pop?

09:26 - Uma (Guest)

Yeah, I liked the connection with the audience, for sure. And that informal kind of space where you can have connection, and that banter. But what I like about Cabaret, which feels to me like it brings all those worlds together, is that you're also able to create more play and more story and more comedy that adds to a greater story. You know, if you're doing a gig, that's great I love doing a gig but it is not. It doesn't have a shape in a story and a narrative. You can create it through the songs. Yeah, but that's not why people go and see a gig.

10:01

You go and see a gig because you want to lose yourself in the music and enjoy what the artist is putting up there. You know, um, and I like that. Yeah, cabaret allows me to kind of straddle both of those two worlds, but with that informality that pop gives you where you're having a conversation with the audience. So um Intolerant really explores my experiences with lifelong food allergies and Crohn's disease, which I was only diagnosed with not even two years ago. It was in May of 2022.

10:34

So that was a very difficult time, very physically difficult time. But I remember thinking partway through navigating that year because it became a horrific year when, yes, I got diagnosed, finally, after being, you know, sick for two and a half years um, with Crohn's, but without knowing it was Crohn's. Then, after I got diagnosed and we started looking at ways to treat it, I got COVID and then it became long COVID and it was a whole like that year was awful and I remember really feeling like, okay, when I'm well enough, I have to create something from this, like I can't just this is not just time that I'm laying in bed. This has got to come out of me

It's got to be something and I, um, I think that that drive I don't know exactly what that drive is in me when I've I've had that very strong drive, you know, like I've got to do something about this, or I've got to like I can't let this pain go unacknowledged, like kind of thing. All the three things that I am most proud of. So I'll talk about the other two very briefly you know all.

11:47

All of the projects that I'm really proud of have come from that place. So it feels very connected to who I am and very part of my values and how I've always kind of gone through the world.

11:57 - Alexis (Host)

I can resonate with this so much.

11:58 - Uma (Guest)

Yeah, right, yeah. That's why I like this so much. But it's just, it's so. Yeah, it's connected to my core and, you know, sometimes we forget about that and we go away from it. We have to live in this world. That, you know, pulls us in so many different directions. You lose sight of that, but when you are able to tap into that, it sounds really wanky but you know that essence of who you are you know?

12:19

At your core and you can create something from that. That's so powerful. And I think for me this show, as I said, you know it allowed me to do all the things I love. It's original music, but it's also opera, it's comedy, it's play, but it's also got real moments of intensity and and um pathos. You know, it showed me that I can do that on my own. You know, would I recommend self-producing, not having a director, not having a marketing team?

No, I wouldn't. Uh, am I doing it again for the next rounds? Yes, I am. Would I recommend that? No, but that's how we are when we start, you know, when we're at the beginnings of these things. And it is very different these days in the industry.

13:02

You don't just approach an agent and they appear you know, it doesn't work like that, no, so, uh, or a manager, you know. So, until it happens, you end up doing a lot of this stuff on your own, and it showed me how capable I am to do all of that stuff and to do all this other crap that I have no experience in, and it felt really, as I said, you know, aligned to who I am as a show and powerful, like the audience response was. I was really touched by the people, enjoyed it and felt connected to it, but also that I could do it like that was great. But then, in that same vein, you know, the other two pieces that I did under my stage name.

13:37

The two songs that I'm most proud of are definitely Houses On Fire, which I released in 2020, which is a climate action song. Oh my god, it's amazing. Still adore that song and where it came from, you know. But then the other song that was on, like my very first kind of release, um which was called Girl On Caffeine funny, we talked about coffee um, um, that song is called I will stand, which again is about it's more from a social justice perspective and about, you know, standing up against hate, which feels very applicable now, uh, more than ever more than when I wrote it even.

14:11

But those pieces that they just they hit something really deep in me. So it's not just creating the art, even though that's really fun and I love doing that and art for art's sake and fun for fun's sake and all of that. But when you, yeah, connect in, it's something else.

14:29 - Alexis (Host)

But we're also multi-faceted we're allowed to just do those fun loving songs that are a bit more carefree and then for us to really tap into, like that's right, there's no rules, we're allowed to whatever, yeah, I'm so chuffed that you mentioned um those three projects because they're yeah, they're pretty special, so special. But then on, let's flip it. Yep, what do you think has challenged um your creativity and do you think there was like a major lesson out of that?

15:02 - Uma (Guest)

I think the biggest one for me is um coming up against internal shame like coming up against internal shame like very often. That's really really powerful for me and and bites me in the bum all the time, you know, even when I need to go and practice something and go into the practice room to get started. You know that's my biggest challenge to getting into any creative space and I think that was really difficult in writing Intolerant.

15:30

It made it so hard because so many of the experiences, the stuff that I experienced as a kid with my allergies and not being taken seriously, and then not being taken seriously, you know, with doctors for two and a half years before I was diagnosed with Crohn's, all this kind of stuff and the little things that happen along the way, you know, with things that people don't even think of. You know, like dating when you've got food allergies, is interesting. You know it's intense and you've got to find ways to navigate those things. And because so many of those experiences were wrapped up in so much pain and shame and yucky you know stuff, um, it was really hard to write the show, like I was getting blocked, I couldn't. I kept being like I have to finish this, I have to do it now because I've got to do this, xyz, and it just kept like.

16:24

I just kept feeling blocked and it took a long time to work through that and I, you know, ended up having to talk a lot of it out, you know, with with my mum, with other people that I, you know, knew would be able to listen to it, rather than trying to sit and write it, because normally that's how I would do it and then come back and listen to what I'd said to be able to write it out. So it's those those old, very, very old emotions that really bite me, the bum, the most

17:00 - Alexis (Host)

Was there some tools that were you able to sort of? I mean, you just mentioned obviously leaning on your community to help you through that. Were there some other tools that were helpful during that time to try and regulate?

17:12 - Uma (Guest)

I think that is a little bit more when I started leaning into okay, I'm experiencing this really strong thing. I need to move my body somehow. I need to get it out. Okay, I dip in and out of that. Some days I'm able to do that and some days I just kind of go and go much more internal but when I do it it's really really powerful and useful.

17:35

Um, but also I think it was just kind of going learning to let go of that uh sensation like, okay, you're so wound up now, just take a step back, go do something else. Yeah, you're on a deadline, but forget about the deadline. You can forget about it for another half an hour.

17:54 - Alexis (Host)

Yeah an hour is not in the big scheme of things the deadline's there, but an hour, yeah, it's not gonna break the bank.

18:03 - Uma ( Guest)

Right and I've learned over and over, and, over and over again over my years of everything, not just creating but doing it of life, of adulting, that's right like if you give yourself that time to recover is not exactly the right word, but if you give yourself that time to process stuff, you end up actually being more productive.

18:23

And not that productivity should be the measure of who, we are. But when you are trying to create something on a deadline, yeah you know saying actually I'm going to give myself the afternoon off, or actually I'm going to give myself the morning off or I'm going to do, rather than being really hard on yourself saying it's not done, just go and finish it right so much more helpful.

18:45 - Alexis (Host)

I don't. I don't know about you, but I always think I, whenever I'm in those spaces, I feel like I need to take a step back and be like, okay if I wasn't talking to myself and I was talking to a fellow human being, would I be saying those things? Probably not. I'd probably be like you need to have balance, you need to eat, sleep, move, see your friends, whatever. You can't work all the time, you can't, yeah and yet I don't know about you, but that, on reflection, it's like oh no, I expect, yeah, the utmost output

19:12 - Uma (Guest)

Well, and I think, like well I know, for opera singers and classical musicians in general, but particularly opera singers we're told you have to practice every day, you cannot miss it. You know like, and there's so much, as an opera singer, that you have to build in your toolkit you know, you have to be across the languages, as well as across the technique, which takes a lot of dedication. You have to be across the breathing. You have to be across the style.

19:40 - Alexis (Host)

It’s so hard.

19:42 - Uma (Guest)

It's really hard, right and, and it's impossible to well, unless you, unless that is all you want to devote your time to, it's impossible to have a life and and and maintain that. You know you have to live your life around your art, which some people want to do, and I suppose that's why part of the other reason why I've leaned more on cabaret is that my body is not made for that life.

20:09

You know, cabaret allows me to be able to do that kind of stuff, that really precise work in the context of doing other fun stuff as well, and I think in terms of, you know, pop stuff we also get it from. You must hustle. You want people to listen to your music. You've got to be on top of this. You've got to be on top of that, you've got to be like all this kind of stuff, and I mean okay it's, it's, it's.

20:36 - Alexis (Host)

Look, I mean, nothing we do comes without hard work. No, but I think that notion that you need to be hustling every minute of every day you're almost doing people a disservice because, like, everyone's going to burn out and people are the amount of I'm sure there's people in your community to make you. Yeah, we hear quite often, or not, that people burn out and if not, they have a hiatus, they totally leave the industry. That's right.

21:04 - Uma (Guest)

Yeah, that's right. And also, I mean, I suppose it depends on what angle you're coming from, but the more you hassle people, the less they're going to actually want to engage with you too. So you've got to choose. You've got a big project that you're doing. Yeah, you're hustling around that, but you know, you've got to give yourself the grace too, I think.

21:24 - Alexis (Host)

We need to love ourselves and be kind to ourselves.

21:27 - Uma (Guest)

Yes, we've got to work on those things.

21:37 - Alexis (Host)

When you're creating, do you have an object or a thing and it could be something really like practical or it could be like sentimental but do you have a thing, an object that you can't live without when you're creating? And if so, what is it and why?

21:54 - Uma (Guest)

I think for me it's. It's not a specific notebook. I mean, it would be a specific notebook that I've got those notes in, but it's like it's not that there has to be has to be this special one. I just have to have a notebook and usually I've got like the pen of the day, you know, the pen that has been my, my best friend for the last you know few weeks or whatever yeah until it's the next pen. Yeah, you know that kind of thing.

So I want my favorite pen of the moment and I want my notebook. They're my two like things.

22:25 - Alexis (Host)

I love this, yeah if you had one piece of advice, like a nugget of goodness to give another creative, what advice would that be? What would that little nugget be?

22:38 - Uma (Guest)

I think, taking the pressure off yourself that you have to create in this particular way and you have to do it exactly like this and it has to be done like giving yourself that space to live there wasn't, and knowing and trusting that you're going to come back to your creativity because you are, like it's an innate part of who you are. Just because you put it down for a day or a week, you know, or you're on holiday for a month, it it's still part of who you are, it's still going to be there and that space might actually help you create something even more special, even more connected. I think that was something that was really.

23:18

I listened to an interview with Trevor Noah and, okay, you know, stand-up is not my mode of creativity, although you never know, but never say never, never say never. But, um, he said something about that, how he was like pushing really hard, doing gigs and all this kind of stuff, and a mentor said to him how are you going to get new material? Like, if all you're doing is gigging and writing stuff and preparing for the gig and doing the gig, you're not creating any new material for yourself because you're not living, and I think that doesn't just apply to stand up, it applies to music and it even applies to operate. Yes, we have a lot of practice that has to be done, but if you're not also then gaining, you know, experience in other parts of life or giving yourself the space to develop more, you're not actually going to achieve like that.

24:08

Every one of my biggest achievements or biggest steps forward in my development as an artist have been when I have had a little break that might only be three days, you know, or a day or whatever, but giving myself that space to then come back and it's like, oh, oh, oh, it's all happening. You know, you're just giving yourself, yeah, you're taking, taking a bit of the pressure off.

24:30 - Alexis (Host)

If someone's curious to sort of do what you do, or just even not to even do what you do, but just curious how you got to what you're doing. Would you have any references or resources that you'd recommend, like are there courses or books or I don't know, influences?

25:01 - Uma (Guest)

From an operatic perspective. There's some great like masterclasses on YouTube with, like really famous opera singers, so that will kind of give you a flavour of that world if you want to go looking in that direction. But there are also some really funny influencers on Instagram that do really silly content around opera singers. It's niche. It's niche because it's for opera singers, by opera singers. But there's some great stuff out there, like Haus is in H-A-U-S of Schmizzay is very good. And then Sula Parasitas she's an amazing Greek. I'm pretty sure she's Greek.

25:35

I think she's Greek, she's a very good opera singer and she does some great like content as well.

25:43 - Alexis (Host)

Amazing. How great is TikTok?

25:45 - Uma (Guest)

Oh, so good.

25:50 - Alexis (Host)

We’ve come up to the last question. If you could hear anyone else come on this podcast and answer these questions who would it be and why?

25:56 - Uma (Guest)

Ali McGregor and Kate Miller-Heinke? Very selfishly, I'd love to hear them.

26:01 - Alexis (Host)

I mean, all I can do is try to get them.

26:06 - Uma (Guest)

That's right. I'd love to hear them. And I think you know there are some. There are some amazing artists that we're yet to actually see flourish. One of my dear, dear friends who's in the more comedy space, Hani Elrafi like, has had to really do his thing while having another full-time career at the same time. And I have been you, you know lucky in that respect, in that because I was studying a lot of the time you know, I had to focus on this stuff.

26:42

That was, that was what I was doing, that's what I was studying, and then I was unwell so I couldn't be working all the time because my body couldn't handle it. And you know, lucky to have family support and all those kinds of things. But there are a lot of artists who don't have that and I'd love to hear from some of them to how they've made it work, how they've managed that balance.

27:06 - Alexis (Host)

Yes, I love this. Well, oh, my goodness, Uma that was just delight. Thank you so much for coming or really letting me come through your creative job. No, well, good luck with all the future endeavours and, yeah, I can't wait to check out your show Intolerant, how exciting.

27:23 - Uma (Guest)

It’s going to be really fun.

27:27 - Alexis (Host)

I love it.