Am I a Scumbag? (with Vegan Gains)

The Simple Heart w/ Wayne Hsiung

Vegan Gains thinks I’m a scumbag. And I’m grateful.

Richard Burgess, or Vegan Gains, is among the most important vegan influencers in history. His brand of fierce advocacy has generated a big following, with over 300k subscribers on YouTube. But while there is much to appreciate about Richard – he is wicked smart and has provocative, evidence-based views on everything from organic food (he’s against it) to carnivores in the wild (he thinks they should be exterminated) – the thing I love most about him is his honesty. In a world where everyone else is performing, Richard always says what he actually thinks. This includes his controversial take on vegan cats. If your cats aren’t vegan, he argues, you are a scumbag. A shockingly high percentage of the meat in this country is fed to companion animals. (Estimates range from 10-30%.) And Richard believes that feeding a cat non-vegan food – which I did for a period of time last year when Joan was sick and required (according to the vet) a prescription diet – is offering support to this violent industry. I don’t agree with Richard on many issues – including carnivores and cats – but I respect his intelligence and candor. And when I think back to my greatest failings as an activist and leader, they almost always relate to situations where I tried to “perform” - to say or do what people wanted me to say or do, rather than what I thought was right or true. It turns out, when you say what you think, as Richard and I both try to do in this conversation, you can still have respect for one another – and even be friends. This was one of my favorite conversations for that reason. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did! - The Simple Heart on Substack - Subscribe to Wayne Hsiung's newsletter to learn more about the #RightToRescue at https://simpleheart.org! - Chapters: Chapter 1 00:00-7:58 - Intro, Cosmic Skeptic, & animal agriculture

Chapter 2 7:59-18:46 - Human cruelty, animal extinction, hope for the future, religions, & leaders

Chapter 3 18:47-26:10 - Wayne’s family fleeing China, Mao Zedong, & Hitler

Chapter 4 26:11-41:46 - What makes people see the truth about atrocities to animals & Gary Yourofsky

Chapter 5 41:47-1:02:03 - Sustaining yourself in the movement, hypocrites, & being objective

Chapter 6 1:02:04-1:31:46 - Thoughts on predatory animals, xenomorphs, humans, & nonviolence

Chapter 7 1:31:47-1:46:05 - Violence against animals, consumerism, veganism, & systemic/political change

Chapter 8 1:46:06-1:51:16 - The movement needs an inclusive culture (framing the movement as banning slaughterhouses & violence against animals vs. only eating vegan food)

Chapter 9 1:51:17-1:54:31 - Final thoughts: fake vegans, working with people you disagree with for a better world, & outro