#006 Conversation, Connections, Facilitation & a Mindful Ecommerce World

MindfulCommerce

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Where to find Tom Locke:

Tom Locke - LinkedIn
Tom Locke - Instagram

Where to find Noughts & Ones:

Noughts & Ones - Website
Noughts & Ones - Instagram

Links Mentioned in Episode:

Patagonia
Finisterre
Know The Origin
People Tree
Twelve
Red Bank Coffee
Blossom Coffee Roasters
Contentful
Github
Netlify

Sponsor:

This podcast is sponsored by the MindfulCommerce Directory.

Shownotes:

Krissie Leyland 0:00
Hello, and welcome to the MindfulCommerce Podcast: a place where we talk to ecommerce brands, service providers and developers who care about protecting our planet. Today, we're talking to Tom from Noughts and Ones: a Shopify agency working with purpose-driven ecommerce brands who want to make a meaningful impact online. We love their advocacy for a better world, their passion for Shopify and sustainable commerce... and they're great to work with. And I know this firsthand! Hello Tom, welcome! Would you like to introduce yourself.

Tom Locke 0:42

Yeah, so I'm Tom. I run an agency called Noughts and Ones in Bristol. And we're a web agency specializing in Shopify, working with ecommerce conscious brands, helping to make meaningful impact online.

Krissie Leyland 1:07

Nice. I love it. What are you up to at the moment? You didn't always have that focus on conscious brands and purely Shopify, did you?

Tom Locke 1:19

No, early days, we started out doing actually quite a lot of custom Squarespace design and development. We started doing a bit of ecommerce on that platform but we always knew that other platforms are a little bit better when it came to the functionality for ecommerce brands. Shopify was something that we'd always wanted to really get stuck into. Then, it just happened semi-naturally, although it was definitely our plan. Now we focus pretty much entirely on Shopify and we've replaced Squarespace with an alternative web tech stack basically, that you're obviously very familiar with.

Krissie Leyland 2:11

Yeah, definitely. What was it that attracted you to Shopify, in particular? That Squarespace didn't have as much functionality, did you say?

Tom Locke 2:23

Yeah, we were finding limitations from a development perspective. But also, we were starting to work with bigger commerce brands that needed more of their platform. Shopify, being a commerce-focused platform, just has a lot more strings to its bow. We were finding that it was a much better fit and we knew that in order to kind of serve those customers as an agency that Shopify was a much better fit as a platform.

Krissie Leyland 3:01

I've used both and I much prefer Shopify. It's easy to use as someone like myself, who's not a developer, but then you can also use a lot of different technologies. You can code–do the geeky code stuff and scale. It's also quite simple and easy to use for maybe a brand owner that doesn't really know about the back-end and that kind of stuff.

Tom Locke 3:34

For us as an agency, we were born out of working with a platform like Squarespace, which obviously, the idea is that anyone can make a website, upload content and that sort of thing. So our approach to Shopify development is very much focused on the actual kind of day-to-day usability. I guess that's something that has always stuck with us in terms of our approach is that: yes, we can build out really custom themes, but still maintain the actual usability on a day-to-day, on a content management level. Whenever we're building out a specific feature on a Shopify store, we're always trying to think about who's going to be in the seat–that's going to be using that eventually, which is generally going to be the merchant. So we try and build in any custom features within the theme editor itself. That's something that's super important for us.

Krissie Leyland 4:44

Also, do you find that the App Store helps? I don't know what the App Store–if there even is an app store on Squarespace... but is that something that attracted you to Shopify as well?

Tom Locke 5:02

Obviously, there's a whole host of additional features and functionality that you can plug into Shopify that, you know, at the time you couldn't in Squarespace, and now, it's still very much restricted. And certainly, for us as developers, having that kind of starting point for a particular feature... it just makes total sense to use an existing app as the basis and maybe, tweak it from there or get it to do what we needed to do, basically.

Krissie Leyland 5:32

That's very cool. I wish I could do that. I do. I wish I could because I'm always like, "If only there was an app for this, this & this and I could just like tweak one or build one from scratch would be great."

Tom Locke 5:45

I think with a lot of things, it'd be great if there was one thing that did everything. But inevitably, you've got to tweak things somewhere.

Krissie Leyland 5:54

And then also, you've got to have a focus, haven't you? It's like you said, what's great about Shopify is they only focus on commerce. Whereas Squarespace, you know, they do everything... well, they say they do.

Tom Locke 6:10

Sort of a catch-all type thing.

Krissie Leyland 6:12

Yeah, which isn't always great. It's good to niche and get really good at one thing. Actually, on that note, so you have tweaked or shifted your niche a little bit. So we mentioned that you're focusing on working with purpose-driven brands, and do you want to talk a bit about that?

Tom Locke 6:37

Yeah, it's felt like a real natural evolution for the agency. Ultimately, Noughts and Ones is built around the values of each and every team member. I have an amazing team that works at Noughts and Ones, and generally, they're just a passionate bunch of creative, lovely people. So, I think I've always wanted to shape the agency around the collective vision rather than just my vision as an agency owner. I think that's kind of something that's long been championed through our own values as individuals and now it's all kind of coming together, basically. It is super cheesy, but I said the other day that, "You know, it really feels like Noughts and Ones now is becoming the agency that it should be." So, we're always looking to do what we can do in a more conscious way. Despite the madness of the last–well, it's basically been a year now, hasn't it?–year (not that this is going to be podcast about COVID), I think it is really exciting to see ecommerce growing so significantly. Which, is very positive but I think that means that ultimately, there's a bigger opportunity for agencies and tech partners, to make sure that we're scaling with that growing ecommerce world to make sure that it's happening in a way that is as positive and meaningful as possible.

Krissie Leyland 8:39

I love that. Yeah, definitely. That's what we're all about. I remember when we were first talking about it. It was like we both went down this rabbit hole at the same time. Do you remember?

Tom Locke 8:51

Yeah, absolutely. We were–I feel like it was maybe almost a year ago, was it?

Krissie Leyland 9:00

I think, yeah–no longer.

Tom Locke 9:02

Really?

Krissie Leyland 9:03

Yeah. Anyway... I was so excited to talk to somebody who understood what I was talking about.

Tom Locke 9:11

Yeah and I think it's certainly from us as individuals, but also a collective realization of the impact that ecommerce does have. Obviously, that coupled with how much it's growing as a result of things that are going on in the world. I think it was serendipitous that we connected, and as you say, went down that rabbit hole.

Krissie Leyland 9:40

Like you said, ecommerce is growing but so is its impact and we need to do everything we can to lower that impact.

Tom Locke 9:50

That's exciting, right?

Krissie Leyland 9:51

Yeah!

Tom Locke 9:52

It's a huge opportunity to start a conversation and make sure that sustainability in commerce and ecommerce, specifically, is being talked about.

Krissie Leyland 10:04

Definitely, and I think ecommerce can be part of the solution to combating or fighting climate change... It's just about working out exactly how we can do it. Talking about it is also the best thing and that's why we're talking now. So, what projects have you got on at the moment and what is it about those projects that are helping to make ecommerce more sustainable?

Tom Locke 10:35

We've got a really nice mix at the moment, actually, of projects. So, we've just kicked off a Shopify project with a plant-based, single-use plastic-free deodorant brand called Fussy, as you may have seen on Instagram. They're a recent startup and they're just an incredible brand and they want to do everything right and do right by this "big round thing" that we're on... Which is really exciting. Then we've also got just a really beautiful coffee brand, based up in the Lake District, and they're really focused on the traceability of their products, obviously, and quality. Fundamentally, the brands that we'reworking with want to have a positive impact and do what they do best in as conscious a way as possible. So it's really exciting.

Krissie Leyland 11:47

That's really cool, I love it. I bet you just feel so content, so happy with the work you're doing.

Tom Locke 11:54

Yeah, so the coffee brand we're working with up in Lake District. It's called Red Bank Coffee. Aside from being an absolutely amazing brand, I don't know what it is, but after every call that I come off of, I just feel so zen. I don't know whether it's Tom, who's the guy that runs it but every call that we come off with as a team, we're all just feeling super chil and it's inspiring.

Krissie Leyland 12:26

Oh, that is so nice. I just think it's because you're aligned! It's because you know what you want & what your team needs to feel happy about the work that they do. Great! So, I want to get into the nitty gritty of the projects that you're doing: How do you build or create an online store that is good for the planet?

Tom Locke 12:58

It's a very good question. Yeah, there's a lot to that. Firstly, we we feel a huge responsibility for the part that we play in the whole kind of ecommerce world. So as an agency, we do feel that we do have a big responsibility and with that, obviously, opportunity to actually do what we do in a meaningful way and actually have a positive impact. For us, that kind of breaks down into three areas. So, delivering what we do: our core services and how we exist as an agency, as consciously and sustainably as possible. I think the other aspect is supporting like-minded tech partners, as part of our preferred tech stack so that the partners we work with to achieve certain functionalities for a brand are so important–which is where something like the MindfulCommerce Directory and framework is a game changer. Then obviously, who we work with. So that means, partnering with brands that are focused on doing what they do consciously and not on my over-consumerism. Supporting and working with the right people, fundamentally. I think that's our role I see as being to connect with the right people and ultimately lay out the best course of action when it comes to building and growing an ecommerce brand. I know, it's cliche, but we're all in it together and it can only really be achieved by working together.

Krissie Leyland 14:58

And by working with people who are on the same journey and are also doing everything they can in the way that they work and the way that they live. Yeah, that makes sense. You mentioned the MindfulCommerce Directory, which we haven't talked about yet. You obviously helped us to build that, or you basically built it, you and your team... So, what were your initial thoughts when we approached you with this idea for the directory?

Tom Locke 15:37

We connected over a couple of other projects and ideas and, as you say, we went down that rabbit hole of sustainability and ecommerce. What came out of that as MindfulCommerce just felt totally right & the right time. It just felt like a really natural kind of thing and I think when the idea was presented, it just sort of clicked. You know, I was super fired up. I just knew that it wasn't an option to not do because it was super exciting! Obviously nothing really like it has properly existed before and I think the amount of work that you guys have put in along with Twelve on the framework is incredible. Honestly, it does feel like the start of something... really... game changing.

Krissie Leyland 16:40

Ooh, I like that! Thanks! So the MindfulCommerce Directory is a directory of experts. So: service providers, technologies, to ecommerce apps... anybody who can help sustainable brands to grow or a brand that isn't necessarily sustainable, but they want to be more sustainable, and kinder to the planet. Just in case people didn't know of it yet.

Tom Locke 17:11

And actually, I think on that: it doesn't have to be something that's just closed off to a certain number of brands or companies that thinking a certain way. You don't have to be selling sustainable or eco friendly products, to be conscious and to be sustainable in the way that you conduct your business, right? So actually, for me, that's the even more exciting part: is that we can make a real positive impact with brands that aren't necessarily in that space. Then that opens it up to basically anyone, which is pretty cool.

Krissie Leyland 17:56

Yeah! I spoke about this app in the previous episode, so it's like I'm promoting them but I'm not–for example, Recurate is a plugin that you can plug into your online store where you basically can have a secondhand shop on your brand's website. So, any brand, even if you're not selling products that are made out of sustainable eco-friendly materials, you can still resell your clothing or your products or whatever, if you can. You know, you can't resell everything–like you can't resell deodorant– but it's accessible to everybody.

Tom Locke 18:47

That is what's so important: it's having the conversation and having somewhere that the educationcan happen with those brands that aren't necessarily in that space. Because ultimately t's not just going to take a handful or 200,000 conscious brands with eco friendly products. Really, the proper impact is going to come when people outside of that space or sphere. That's really when there can be some significant changes.

Krissie Leyland 19:29

That makes a lot of sense, because if we can shift their mindset to start thinking about it, then that's actually just as powerful as speaking to the brands are already thinking about it. We can help them to improve it, but we can introduce it to those that haven't thought about it yet.

Tom Locke 19:54

I think that's where the the framework obviously comes in... Which is just exciting.

Krissie Leyland 20:02

Yeah it is just exciting. So that's great... Who do you think is leading the way towards sustainability in ecommerce?

Tom Locke 20:20

Yeah, another big question. I think there are obviously a number of amazing brands and individuals that are driving, change or having conversations. On a previous episode, where you're speaking with Lucy from Reverie, you discussed the problem of how over-consumerism is really at the heart of where ecommerce and sustainability & yet also where those issues lie. It isn't necessarily a new thing, but it's not something that can really quickly be fixed. So in my mind, the kind of the people who are leading the way are the people who are willing to talk about it, being proactive in conversations, taking meaningful action by holding events or exactly like you're doing with the podcast. But when it comes to brands, there are obviously some some amazing brands out there. You know, Patagonia, Finisterre, Know The Origin... I don't know if you know those guys?

Krissie Leyland 21:38

Yes. Love that website.

Tom Locke 21:41

And People Tree. They've been around, obviously, for absolutely ages. They're obviously the kind of brands that focus on not the sort of throwaway fast-fashion, when it comes to those sorts of apparel brands. As far as tech companies go, obviously Shopify, as a platform, does work quite hard on on sustainability, and their impact as an organization or as a platform.

Krissie Leyland 22:38

So if you're building a low-impact website for a brand, something that you can say to them is, "Make it really obvious that it is (low-impact)" because then you're communicating the message, and you're building awareness around the fact that a website has a high impact on the planet. So there's advocacy and sharing innovative ideas, as well. You mentioned the coffee brand that you're working with... I don't know if their packaging is fully recyclable, or... I'm not sure because I don't know that brand. But there is a brand in our community, they're a coffee brand called Blossom Coffee and we use them all the time. They're amazing.

Tom Locke 23:13

I've had another coffee. That's very nice.

Krissie Leyland 23:15

So good, isn't it?

Tom Locke 23:16

And actually, Tom at Red Bank, I think he does partner with them. They're in Manchester, aren't they?

Krissie Leyland 23:21

Yeah! So is [Red Bank's] packaging recyclable?

Tom Locke 23:27

Yes.

Krissie Leyland 23:29

Oh, cool! But the thing was with Blossom Coffee: we didn't know that it was 100% recyclable because it didn't say anything on the packaging. So I'm just saying that communication and stuff is really good to do. If you're working with a brand, just remind them to communicate what they're doing.

Tom Locke 23:47

I mean, if you're doing something positive, why wouldn't you obviously shout about it from your own kind of brand's positioning? Fundamentally, if you're doing something like that, then make it known.

Krissie Leyland 24:06

Yeah definitely, tell everyone! So the directory, the MindfulCommerce Directory... we have tried to build it, for this phase one, with the lowest impact possible. So, because it's a Jamstack... how does that make it better for the environment?

Tom Locke 24:35

Well the MindfulCommerce Directory stack, or our approach to web development outside of Shopify: we're building out our own low impact framework that we call 'Conscious Development'. So what we're looking to do, and MindfulnessCommerce is our real first proper project with this new framework in mind. It's an evolving beast, obviously, in terms of both the directory and also the framework. But fundamentally, we have a number of principles that make up our Conscious Development framework–all of which we've obviously applied to MindfulCommerce and the directory. So really, the biggest thing is having a low-impact design principle. So obviously, questioning absolutely everything and making sure that nothing, that is featured on the site, isn't needed, basically, or doesn't serve a purpose. Then, more on the tech side, what we're using is basically a headless approach. Rather than using an overarching platform, like Squarespace or WordPress, we're actually breaking out the individual components that make up a website: content management, asset storage, your code storage, you know, domain hosting–all of the bits and pieces. Which traditionally, platforms like WordPress and Squarespace want to bring under one roof by taking a headless approach. Essentially, you're kind of breaking those out into individual platforms, almost. So the content management is done through a platform called Contentful. All the code is hosted with GitHub and then deployed through Netlify. What that means is, we can build everything that we need, and with none of the stuff we don't, basically. Then within that, we can build super efficient code that ultimately doesn't sit on a server somewhere. We basically try and use the web browser to do as much of the work as possible. Basically, we try and render as much as possible on the browser side. Ultimately, that minimizes impact when it comes to servers and things like that.

Krissie Leyland 27:47

I'm just looking at now, it's so beautiful as well. You don't sacrifice it looking nice but like you said, it's your first one and there's still things that we could do to make it better.

Tom Locke 28:01

Yeah, for us as an agency, we're still very much on that journey and it's very cool to have you guys as part of that journey. Every day we're learning new things so it's constantly evolving and improving.

Krissie Leyland 28:20

That makes so much sense and then you can just put your Noughts and Ones everywhere in the spotlight! Great, so how do you think the MindfulCommerce Directory and framework will support ecommerce businesses (so apps, agencies, brands...)?

Tom Locke 28:42

As we've said previously, it's really all about conversations and connecting with the right people or someone that knows one very specific thing. Then, basically it's all about putting all of those pieces of the puzzle together. So, really what the directory enables that kind of connection with like-minded tech businesses, and to facilitate that kind of conversation. Obviously, there's a huge amount that we can get stuck into when it comes to more of the educational piece, which would speak to brands outside of that kind of space. Then further to that, the framework then obviously gives those brands–that are looking to have a more meaningful impact or conduct their business in a more conscious way– it actually gives them something tangible to work with and work towards. It obviously hasn't existed until now.

Krissie Leyland 29:55

It's so interesting, because yesterday, I was speaking to Jessica & Naomi about the framework (because they helped us with that) and they were saying, from being so in involved with the framework, that the directory is actually the action. Because in the framework, it's asking you questions and things to think about in your business and then saying, "Here's an example of somebody who can help you." And then it links to the directory, then you can connect with them, and then you can get going on tackling that specific pillar or task that you're working on. It works both ways, doesn't it?

Tom Locke 30:38

Yeah, absolutely. Even if, there are brands that may already know tha they really want to work with a tech company that specializes in X, Y, Z or they want to partner with a packaging company that only does fully recyclable packaging, for example. Yes, you might be able to Google that and find someone that potentially does it, but you never really know. I guess that's kind of touching on the realms of greenwashing, but ultimately, now there's a place to look, right? Which is cool.

Krissie Leyland 31:32

Yeah and we've taken the time to get to know, everyone who's listed on that directory, because they're in the community. They're doing things like this podcast and events with us and we know that they genuinely want to help with sustainability and social impact. So, I love it. Thanks! It's like this really nice cycle, you know? Like a flywheel of different points of the directory, the framework, the community, education... It is all about education, connection, and collaboration–working towards one goal. I keep coming back to it, but it's just about talking: Just talk, talk, talk.

Tom Locke 32:23

Obviously, there's a load of exciting plans that you guys have for MindfulCommerce in both areas. Ultimately, what you're kind of creating is something self serving when it comes to the framework, the education & the directory. You know, eventually, it will just become completely self serving and hopefully become an absolute beast.

Krissie Leyland 32:51

Yeah and also, I hope it's the norm. We always said, if it's not actually needed, you know, if it becomes the norm, then it's like, our job's done, if that makes sense? Obviously, it will still be there, but it'll just be "Oh, yeah, that's the place to go to find an expert to help me with ecommerce stuff and it's also good for the planet!" I'm just so excited about it. Ah! Best thing you said, which literally made my brain happy, is: "It's not just about the brands that are already on the journey." I think with MindfulCommerce, we need to start speaking to brands that are outside of the space.

Tom Locke 33:55

Those brands that are outside of the space, make up such a huge amount and so there's potential impact that they can have–really, just by making some pretty small decisions on the way they even just do one aspect of running their business. The actual amount of positive impact that could have is incredible. Obviously, it's super important to champion those brands that are taking those steps. They should absolutely be celebrated and championed but, they're already kind of in that mindset, right? But then think about all the brands that aren't in that mindset, then it starts to get pretty big.

Krissie Leyland 34:49

Yeah, even just saying to them, "Do you know there are things that you can do to improve such and such", whatever it is. And then they're like, "Oh, yeah!"

Tom Locke 35:02

But fundamentally, it is in their best interests, in terms of their brand because people are willing to spend more money to invest and connect with brands who are conscious and who are trying to do what they do in the right possible way. So, although it may seem that it's not the best business decision from a profitability perspective, that really is quite a short sighted viewpoint because ultimately, the conversation is growing and consumers are becoming a lot more conscious. So engaging with that is a no brainer.

Krissie Leyland 35:54

Definitely. I always say, "the future's conscious commerce" because if you're not thinking about it, you're just gonna get left behind. So, think about the future, and long term, ecause if you don't, then there won't be a planet to live on.

Tom Locke 36:10

[No planet] to think about or sell your products on.

Krissie Leyland 36:18

Exactly. So do you think, this is a big question and I love it–

Tom Locke 36:22

Oh, stop with the big questions. No, I'm only joking.

Krissie Leyland 36:34

So, on that note then: If we tell all those brands that we were just talking about that aren't yet on the journey and we say something to them like "We're going to create this huge wave & educate them all." In 10 years, do you think we could have a fully sustainable world?

Tom Locke 36:58

Obviously, that would be incredible. There's certainly a huge amount or there's so much more that can be done. Fundamentally, there is still an incredible amount to unpick, undo or address. So I think something like that could be possible but it does need buy in across the board, which really is where the biggest challenge is. That's only ever going to happen if it is addressed and people are talking about it, just like we're having a conversation right now. I don't want that to be like a sad answer.

Krissie Leyland 38:00

I asked because I myself often just ponder this in my head. Obviously, that's the biggest goal.

Tom Locke 38:08

But what does that look like, though? Like, the other aspect completely changes things. What that might look like for you might be very different for what that might look like for me. I'll flip it back to you: what's your definition of a fully sustainable ecommerce world?

Krissie Leyland 38:29

I think it's all brands, all service providers, all app companies, and operations being mindful. It's them taking a step back and thinking, "Do I need to do this? Do I need to collect this data? Do I need that high res image? Do I need that video?" Taking more time to be conscious about if you're a brand, the materials that you're using to create a product, or thinking about end of life. So: "Where is this product that I've got in my head going to end up once it's created?" So if people can do that–and that's basically what the framework is.It's just asking you questions, the things that you need to think about: about your product, about your business, about supply chains, communications, website... All that stuff is just being mindful, in my head. But then obviously, you've got all the big businesses that are profit-hungry. and don't really... I don't think someone like me and my small community can even get the chance to talk to people like the guy at Amazon. But, you never know!

Tom Locke 40:00

It's not something that is not discussed–I said that in a really weird backward way–but it's something that is being talked about and is only going to be kind of growing. So ultimately, it's going to get to a point where that sort of thing can't be overlooked. That's what the challenge is for us: to make sure that we're facilitating and expediting that conversation to get to that point where it's something that cannot be ignored, as soon as possible.

Krissie Leyland 40:41

So it's like building the community or just a network, partnerships with people that want to make a difference and just talking about it. Instead of saying "a fully sustainable, positively impactful, ecommerce world," I could have said, "Do you think we can have a more mindful ecommerce world in 10 years?" And it'd be us and like, you know, our community–me and you, our network–will hopefully be able to make a difference. Even if its just someone looks at the framework and takes one thing away about the website data, and the impact it has. It'll just make them just think about it twice a day or in their day to day. Then yeah,I think you'll be more mindful and positive.

Tom Locke 41:41

I think that is 100% something that that can be achieved. Like you say, even if this community can connect to a single person that makes a single decision, the the knock on effect that that will have eventually is huge. So, it can totally be achieved. There's a lot of work to be done within ecommerce. Obviously, there's a lot of work to be done everywhere but I think within commerce, specifically, there's a huge amount that can be achieved through something like MindfulCommerce and the community,that you guys are creating, and the framework to give people a platform to actually think about this stuff. Just because a website or buying from an online store is not a physical experience, obviously, it still has an impact through the way that that business has been conducted. I think that the framework gives that platform to think beyond the screen, basically. Well that's a cheesy line. You've got to put that cheesy line in there.

Krissie Leyland 43:07

Oh, I will now!

Tom Locke 43:10

Looking at the, broadly, business directories that do just become a place to get listed in order to get business... obviously that is an aspect of the directory but really, you're not wanting to connect with brands or tech partners that have that mindset of just wanting to get listed so that they can, you know, work with X,Y,Z. The sort of the weight that MindfulCommerce can carry and the framework, ultimately needs to be at the center of everything. Which obviously, it is and we're working towards that for sure.

Krissie Leyland 43:59

Yeah, definitely. So anybody who gets listed on the directory needs to go through our onboarding, which includes the framework. But if it was a Shopify agency, for example, and they're not currently just specifically working with conscious brands, that's fine. Because as long as they have the idea in their head of how they can help a conscious brand, or maybe it's just that we've triggered something and now they do want to. Like you said, MindfulCommerce is at the center and it's making people think differently.

Tom Locke 44:47

Ultimately, MindfulCommerce is the facilitator, facilitating conversation within the space and within agencies & tech partners that are already thinking that way. But to some extent, more importantly, facilitating the conversation outside of those outside of those spaces or industries... that's when it becomes really powerful.

Krissie Leyland 45:18

That is what I'm taking away from this conversation. I mean, that's changed my mindset a little bit because I've been focusing on people that are already on the journey or thinking about it–at least, they're talking about it–but actually, I think he needs to work harder. Well done, Tom.

Tom Locke 45:40

I think you already work very bloody hard. And obviously we're stoked to be a part of the project and to be working with you guys and MindfulCommerce. As I say, it's super exciting because the potential is almost too much to get your head around. Yeah, so for us, it's just great to be a part of it.

Krissie Leyland 46:12

Right, so I'm going to try and wrap this up, because I could talk to you about this forever... What is your number one tip for ecommerce businesses who want to build an ecommerce website in a planet friendly way?

Tom Locke 46:32

Log on to the MindfulCommerce Directory! Obviously that is something that you definitely should check out but fundamentally, I think it's just to really question everything: every decision that you need to make when you're building your ecommerce brand, or your website. "Is it serving the right purpose? Is it working towards that goal that you set?" That can come down to a content (a page on your site), the tech partners that you work with, or any sort of operational decisions. It's quite a broad answer but fundamentally: question everything.

Krissie Leyland 47:27

Yeah, and be mindful.

Tom Locke 47:29

And be mindful when you're doing it.

Krissie Leyland 47:33

Thank you. That was great. That was a good answer.

Tom Locke 47:37

I hope so.

Krissie Leyland 47:38

So where can people find you, Tom?

Tom Locke 47:43

You can find us on our website, which is noughtsandones.com. You can connect with me on LinkedIn, my name is Tom Locke. As an agency, we're on Instagram. That's our only real sort of active platform. So feel free to check out Noughts and Ones on Instagram.

Krissie Leyland 48:07

Perfect. Your Instagram's beautiful, it's so pretty. Who does your Instagram?

Tom Locke 48:15

I do my Instagram when I get a minute, basically. That's why it's fairly sporadic, but when it does happen, there's a lot of thought has gone into it.

Krissie Leyland 48:26

Yeah, like it's so good. Everyone go on the Instagram. It's pretty.

Tom Locke 48:31

Check out my "rows of three".

Krissie Leyland 48:34

Yeah, exactly. That's exactly why it's nice on the eye.

Tom Locke 48:40

Thanks!

Krissie Leyland 48:44

One more thing, you're part of Ecology, are you?

Tom Locke 48:48

Yes. So we partner with Ecology just as as a business. So we offset our own impact through supporting Ecology. Then as part of our approach to our Shopify projects, we do offer an optional tree planting scheme, as part of a project with Noughts and Ones.

Krissie Leyland 49:15

Cool. And how many trees have you planted?

Tom Locke 49:21

How many trees have been planted? I think we're about 1600.

Krissie Leyland 49:27

And how long has that taken?

Tom Locke 49:31

I think about six months and we've got other projects we're working on at the moment. Basically when we hit a milestone, we celebrate that by planting 100 trees. So it's growing... it's always growing.

Krissie Leyland 49:49

That's cool. You even planted you planted me a tree for Christmas.

Tom Locke 49:53

Yes, we planted a few trees for Christmas for our clients rather than sending out gifts or cards. Everyone got enough chocolate, I'm sure. So we just started planting trees and stuff.

Krissie Leyland 50:09

Yay, love this. Thank you, I think that's it.

Tom Locke 50:17

Anything else?

Krissie Leyland 50:19

No, other than saying, "Bye!"

Tom Locke 50:23

Yeah. Thanks a lot for taking the time speaking with me & for having me on.

Krissie Leyland 50:29

It's good to reflect on everything, isn't it?

Tom Locke 50:32

Yeah, certainly when you're in the weeds of a project in particular. We've obviously achieved some pretty cool stuff.

Krissie Leyland 50:43

Thank you for listening to this episode. If you would like to contact Tom, please visit his website: noughtsandones.com. It was an absolute pleasure to talk to Tom. We have loved working with him on the MindfulCommerce Directory. If you're interested in the MindfulCommerce Directory, framework or community, just visit mindfulcommerce.io and you'll find everything there. If you enjoyed this episode, you're bound to enjoy every other episodes that we do or that we have done already. So please hit subscribe. Every subscribe helps us to reach more people and spread the message about being mindful in the ecommerce world. Thank you!

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